Posts by Doubting Bro

58

For those still in- why do you (really) stay, and what would it take for you to leave the org?

by serenitynow! in

jw
friends

for the so-called conscious class, those of you who know it's all a disgusting lie, what is the real reason you stay in?

i find it hard to understand how ones who know what the org truly is would continue to be an active jw.

i'm not talking about the "faders"- those with an actual plan to get out as painlessly as possible.

Doubting Bro

MLE - very moving post. I understand what you're saying and I think more JWs do that passive aggressive form of protest than we think. There was a while that I felt reform was possible too. I would still like to see reform happen to prevent others from being harmed but I just don't see it. Teddy's iron fisted influence will last a long time. I think the reason they haven't put on additional GB members is that they're concerned they could upset the balance of power and want to be sure that those selected will reflect the hard line attitude of the current body. Just like when selecting a MS to promote to elder. You want to make sure that nothing will upset the ability of the BOE to "work together".

As for me, I know that every JW friend I have would drop me like a hot potato and I'm ok with that. I think growing up JW actually made me very cautious about forging strong relationships and trusting others. I always knew that if it my friendship would never be as important to any of those folks as obeying the organization. So, that's not what bothers me.

Losing my JW relatives would bother me more. However, losing my JW wife and being estranged from my kids is more unbearable to me than going to meetings. No religion is worth that to me. Proving them wrong just doesn't matter that much to me. Now, if there was a situation like blood that came up, then all bets are off. I won't allow someone to die over a man made rule that could change tomorrow.

If it were blood for me, I'm not sure what I would do. I'd rather not be around than to deal with losing my wife. Not sure if life would be worth living at that point.

What would it take for me to leave? If my wife said, I don't want to be a JW anymore, I would never set foot in a KH again. Nothing short of that.

35

Could They Dump The Assemblies?

by metatron in

jw
friends

my theory continues to be that the governing body will be forced to break down the organization piece by piece.. so, i wonder: could they dump the assemblies?.

it is clear - that they are having some problems in this area.

they are selling off assembly halls in some countries, they have moved some district assemblies to assembly halls (to save money on rent) and the pleas for donations from the platform have not let up.. while zombie witlesses may drag themselves to meetings and out in service (with whatever literature/magazines the watchtower manages to afford) indefinitely, i watch this area with interest.

Doubting Bro

My theory is that they would reduce the DC to 2 day events and then make the CA a 1 day event similar to the SAD.

I also think they will continue the trend of moving DCs to assembly halls where it makes sense financially. They get some of these arenas so cheap, especially arenas owned by the city on the theory that bringing 20k JWs over a several week period will more than make up for itself in additional tax revenue from hotels, etc.

Most of the AHs I've seen are fairly new and kept up. The rent charged isn't that cheap and they charge more than enough for the upkeep. While I don't see them building a bunch more new ones, I think the ones they currently have are profitable. One close to me is used most weekends.

61

Crap my District Overseer says

by easyreader1970 in

here are some things that came from the mouth of the district overseer over the course of the two days.

1. the recession isn't going to end.

things are screwed because the demons are controlling the world.

Doubting Bro

I went to one within the past month and while those things weren't mentioned although nationalistic sports were (hey the US sucked in the World Cup but I guess some of the Bethel boys must have gotten into it), we did get some tidbits including:

1 - Not 1 but 2 specific mentions regarding purchasing HD TVs. Both in demos and while not saying you couldn't have one, the were ridiculed and called materialistic. Audience reaction - rollling eyes and jokes afterwards.

2 - An insane demo on wearing suits when eating out after a DC. Elder counsels a younger guy (inferred that he was a MS) about wearing shorts and a polo shirt to go to dinner after the DC. This dork was wearing his badge, BUT no, not good enough. The young man goes back to his room to change into his convention outfit before going to dinner. Audience reaction (based on some joking conversations afterwards I had with some elders/ms, rolling and head shaking.

Oh and the usual end is coming, do more stuff that you've come to expect. A whole half hour on why pioneering is such a protection.

Seriously, WTS! Don't you have enough issues to address beyond this crap?

29

Those that just one day - were not there anymore

by just n from bethel in

jw
friends

i, like otwo in another thread, never really had a bad experience with jws.

i never had any case of molestation come up in the the many congregations i served in.

i never had any major beefs with any elder body.

Doubting Bro

Well written just-n. Very interesting story and I agree that reading the Bible in context without WT spin gives you a completely different take on things.

153

Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

by Mattieu in

just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

Doubting Bro

I'm not saying that religion doesn't have value nor am I religiously intolerant. People should be able to worship as they see fit as long as no one else's right to believe what they want is infringed on and no one is harmed.

Yet, businesses add value to society, don't they? Look at how much longer people live now, how much more comfortable many people live as compared with even 50 years ago. Just because something adds value to society doesn't mean that it should be exempt from taxes. If you follow that logic, then businesses should also be exempt from taxes.

Taxing profits from religious organizations is not even close to banning religion. It does remove preferential treatment by government for religious entities.

153

Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

by Mattieu in

just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

Doubting Bro

They all have a surplus 10 Euro's
Mr A (an atheist) puts it in his bank getting interest. (doesn't pay further tax on it)
Mr B ( a catholic) Puts it in a passing donation plate at his church. (Doesn't pay tax on it)
Mr c (a witness) puts it in a donation box at the back of the kingdom Hall. (The money gets taxed because france doesn't like witnesses)
how is this scenario in anyway fair and honest?

First of all, Mr. A does pay further tax on the 10 Euro's because interest (read profit) is taxable income.

My particular arguement is that both B & C organizations should pay taxes on their profits. Advocating a particular belief system is not a charitable act that should be subsidized by the government by giving preferential treatment. I think all religious organizations should be held to the same standard for sure. If you're going to place a tax on profits of Scientology, JW, LDS, then you should also do so for Catholic, Baptist, Hindu, Muslim, etc.

There is a huge difference between taxing a corporate entity and taxing a belief system. If a world wide tax were placed on the WTS, would that change your JW belief? Would it stop you from getting together and worshiping? Maybe it would need to be smaller groups in private homes but I fail to see how that would stop an individual's belief system.

People can have whatever spiritual goals they want and can talk to whoever would like to listen about whatever they want. But, why should they be given preferential treatment by being exempt from paying taxes.

I know, let's tax all religions except for the WTS since all of their clergy are living a lavish lifestyle!

17

Was it ever in your heart?

by mamalove in

jw
friends

i don't think it ever was in my heart, that is why i have found it relatively easy to leave and not be scared of the fear belief system.

i feel kind of bad for people here who were so immersed that they still get these weird twinges of armageddon fears, etc.

that has to be difficult to still have that looming feeling.

Doubting Bro

I bought it hook, line, and sinker. Even when I had doubts about particular teachings, I always thought Jehovah would take care of it in his own time. I honestly thought that God was using the org and that anything I did for it was in His service.

Wow I'm stupid! Tell you what, I won't EVER get fooled on that sort of claim again.

153

Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

by Mattieu in

just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

Doubting Bro

debator - you do realize we're talking about taxing profits, right? Oh, at least in the US, not only does the donation not get taxed, you don't pay taxes on the money you donate to a not-for profit (including religions). You can write off those donations. So your argument (again at least in the US) that you've already paid taxes on that money is not accurate.

For example, I pay taxes on my income. Then I purchase a good or service and pay yet another tax. But, the business also has to pay taxes on it's profits. The government takes multiple bites.

So are you advocating that no business pay taxes because the individual already pays income taxes? That's great if you're a business but if you think the tax burden is bad now, then think about what it would be without corporate entities paying taxes.

I think governments take way too much of my money as it is, but the world's religions often abuse their not for profit status (in my opinion). I do agree that if you tax one religion, then you should tax them all. Quite frankly, JWs and other fringe groups are really small potatoes.

153

Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

by Mattieu in

just another update on 1 australian senators quest to squash the tax free status of scientology/jw's and other cults:.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html.

now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass.

Doubting Bro

Didn't Jesus say to render Caesar's things to Caesar? Didn't Jesus actually pay the head tax (although the money was found in a fish's mouth)?

So, explain again why ANY religion that claims to follow Christ would be so greedy as to not render a tax when due when the founder of the religion COMMANDED that they do so?

Taxing religious organization's profits is the same as taxing any other entity. Are you telling me that religions don't benefit from governmental services? If a KH, church, or any other building used for religious purposes was burning down, don't tax supported firemen drive tax supported firetrucks on tax supported roads to put out the fire?

Freedom of religious does not equate with freedom from paying taxes any more than my freedom of speech is hindered by my paying taxes.

Rutherford was right, "religion is a snare and a racket".

19

How do JWs in your area treat those who are "No Longer A Publisher.."?

by Open mind in

jw
friends

Doubting Bro

In our area, it really depends. Its so rare that I've heard of someone being removed as an unbaptised publisher. It's probably been 5 years since the last time I've heard such an announcement. No one treated that person (a kid who got in trouble) any differently.

Inactive JWs around here are love bombed more than anything.